“Rich Geeks” moved from South Africa to Chania in Crete

Dr Heinz M. Kabutz (PhD CompSci), author of “The Java(tm) Specialists’ Newsletter”
(Sun Java Champion) was a member of the Rich Geeks Cashflow Club located in South Africa. Together with his wife Helen (her father is Greek) and their two children decided to move in Akrotiri-Chania in Crete and they have formed a new Rich Geeks Cashflow Club there. The HELLENIC Cashflow Club Association interviewed Dr Heinz M. Kabutz and as you will see he gives some great insight about the business and investing enviroment in South Africa, he also makes some comparisons between Greece and South Africa, he talks about how people are playing CASHFLOW in South Africa, as well as he talks about the Greek people living in South Africa and other important issues. It is really a very interesting interview which is worth taking your time in order to read it.

HCCA: First of all we would like to ask you, what prompt you to make that decision to move from South Africa in Akrotiri Chania in Crete? What was that which has attracted you in Greece?

H.K.:  South Africa has become a dangerous place to live.  You can still make a lot of money there, if that is the only thing that interests you.  However, the quality of life was getting to the stage where it was not nice any more.

My wife and children are Greek citizens and we thought it would be a good place to come and live.  So far, I have not actively looked for opportunities, but I know that you can find them here as well as in any country.

Living here in Greece is beautiful and we are thoroughly enjoying the summer months!

HCCA:  As far as we know you’re a world famous  java specialist. Could you please tell us what exactly you’re doing and what exactly is the Java’s specialist newsletter.

H.K.:  World famous, but only in cyberworld.  You will not see my face on any Newsweek or Time magazine.  However, I regularly get the opportunity to speak at international Java conferences.

I started a programming newsletter in 2001 focusing on topics that would interest a Java expert.  This is not a beginner’s newsletter.  It was, and still is, a hobby, something that I do because I love it.  I know that Kiyosaki says we should not do things primarily because they are “fun”, but rather to get to the end point.  Well, the long-term benefit is that I have thousands of regular readers working for important companies.  They help promote my courses on Java and enable me to get interesting work. 

HCCA: a) When and how did you first came in contact with the rich dad philosophy and what was the thing that attracted you to it?

H.K.:  Another newsletter author, Peter Carruthers, shares a lot of wisdom for small business owners in South Africa (www.petesweekly.com).  He mentioned the book “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” in one of his articles, many years ago.  I went to the bookshop the same day, but because they did not have that particular book, I bought “Cashflow Quadrant” instead.  That has remained my favourite book of the series.

Prior to being exposed to Kiyosaki, I taught a couple of courses of how Christians ought to be managing their finances.  It struck a chord with me, when I heard people telling me that they bought a brand-new car with cash.  It was something that I could never imagine was possible.  The course entitled “How to Manage Your Money” takes the Bible and applies it to how we should be living today.  There are lots of examples that I could tell you of people who got free from financial worry by just following the principles in that course.

However, the course on “How to Manage Your Money” stopped short of telling you how to invest the money that you were accumulating.  I had gotten to the stage where my house was paid off, my car was paid off, and I did not owe anything on my credit cards.  I was financially free and could work when I felt like it, because our monthly expenses were minimal.

Kiyosaki was a good next step – to start investing wisely instead of just saving.  

HCCA: b) ”Rich Geeks” are a Cashflow club in South Africa. Could you please tell us some things about the activities of the club in South Africa and how well organized are the cashflow clubs in South Africa?

H.K.:  We are not nearly as well organised as the Greeks.  We used to get together occasionally to play Cashflow 101 and 202 with friends.  I used to try to get real investors to join us and show us the ropes.  One of my friends, Mark Eiserman (http://www.ig.co.za), who is the best real investor that I know, sat with us once and played the game.  It was the first time he played, but within thirty minutes, he was out of the rat race.  He would pick up deals that we would reject and show us how he could benefit from them.  He then started playing again and was out of the rat race in about another twenty minutes.

HCCA: Could you please tell us some things about the business and investing enviroment in South Africa and how well prepared is South Africa to adapt in the fast moving global business enviroment caused by technological changes?

H.K.:   South Africa is in some ways more advanced than Greece.  This is partly due to the isolation that we suffered during the apartheid years, when the world instituted sanctions against our country.  As a result of this, we had to work doubly hard to innovate and keep up with the rest of the world.  Once we joined the world market again, we were surprised at how similar some of our inventions were to the rest of the world.

Unfortunately the new South Africa is full of corruption and bad laws.  The corruption is a bit worse than in Greece (from what I’ve seen and heard here), but the laws are dreadful.  Similarly to anti-Jew Nazi Germany, the laws that are drafted today are anti-white.  Your skin colour will determine whether you can get a permanent job or not.  If you are white, you will probably get a temporary job, as a contractor.  But it is very difficult, almost impossible, to get a permanent job with a big company.

Similarly, if you have a business, you are forced to give away 25.1% of your business to non-white partners.  If you resist this, then the bigger companies are under pressure to stop buying from you.  Without turnover, you can quickly close your doors.

I would predict that in the short term, you can become a millionaire in South Africa.  One of the reasons is the high gold price.  Another is that the skills exodus us leaving behind a vacuum that you could fill.

Once the gold price starts dropping again, then there will be very little that South Africa will be able to offer the world.  Within the next 20 years, I expect to see famine in South Africa, the way that we are now seeing in Zimbabwe.

I think it is important for Europeans to educate themselves about the true nature of Africa.  Perhaps go and live there for a couple of years?  A short two week holiday will not tell you the truth at all.

HCCA: We know that you have two little kids (boy and girl) which are experts in the cashflow game for kids. Robert Kiyosaki said that the cashflow game for kids could be the family’s educational head start his rich dad gave to him. He also said that a parent’s influence at an early age can have long term financial results. In his book Rich Kid, Smart Kid deals on how parents can teach their kids financial literacy. Could you please tell us how you and your wife teach the subject of money to your children?

H.K.:  We never liked the cashflow for kids game that much, since it is so awkward to play.  I would rather recommend to start as early as possible playing Cashflow 101 and Monopoly.

One thing that I did from a young age is to play the real stock market with my kids.  They never got pocket money from me – instead – they had to invest the money that they had.  A few years ago, my son got a present of 8 EUR from an aunt.  Instead of buying a toy, we started buying shares and trading in currency.  I would lend my son money (with interest), he would then buy a share, watch it go up, sell it, cash in.  Sometimes he lost money, other times he made a good profit.  From the 8 EUR, he is now sitting with 350 EUR.  Another thing I do is often talk to them about real life, when we are driving to the beach or to church.  I tell them stories of investments, rental properties, the difference between gross and nett profit.  We talk about greed and the love of money, and how they can really mess up your life.  Maxi (my son) knows exactly what a doodad is.

Other parents try to teach their children to get into the E quadrant.  They pay them pocket money (although that’s pushing them towards social welfare) or make them to odd jobs around the house for money.  So far, I have not once given them money for any work that they have done for me.  I believe this is an important principle.  Scrap pocket money.  Teach your child to invest the money.

And of course, what I indicated already, speak to your child about money.

  HCCA: Robert Kiyosaki wrote an article entitled “ Employee Vs Entrerpreneur-What’s the Difference?”  He conducted a study group on the book  The World is Flat by Thomas L. Frieman, and they concluded (Robert Kiyosaki & the study group) that the World Wide Web has created new opportunities  for those who can think and operate as entrepreneurs. Robert contends that the rich the get richer and the poor stay poor is due to fundamental differences between  the mindset of an entrepreneur and the mindset of an employee. Heinz, since you are a tech-savvy we would like to ask you how helpful is for someone the studying of the Rich Dad philosophy in order to be able for him or her to take advantage of the new opportunities that the World Wide Web has created?

H.K.: There are a lot of opportunities to create passive income.  However, in my opinion, the passive income from the World Wide Web should go straight into buying real estate, it should not be used to support your lifestyle.

The market changes incredibly quickly in cyberspace.  What was hip a month ago, might be old hat today.  I know someone who lives in Crete and who used to make a ton of money through advertising on his website.  However, when Google started GoogleAds, they changed the model from PayPerView to PayPerClick.  All of a sudden, all of his customers wanted to change models, thus severely affecting his passive income.

If I have a rental property and I look after it, then for the next twenty years (at least) I can enjoy the fruits.  This is not the same with opportunities in the World Wide Web.  You have to be quick, make your money and invest it in something of real value.

   HCCA:   A new head start for “Rich Geeks” Cashflow Club in Akrotiri-Chania in Crete. Who’s can come to your cashflow game meetings?

H.K.:  I am supposed to say: “Anyone.”  However, I would like to restrict it a bit, due to my experiences in South Africa.

First of all, do not come if your motivation is to find suckers for your multi-level marketing scheme.

Secondly, do not come if you do not have spare time.  People who are too busy will not get out of the rat race.  You need to first free up your time.

Please do come if you have at least one rental property or if you are keen on buying one in the short term.

We welcome people eager to learn and even more, those eager to share from their real-world experience.

HCCA: Are there any Greek people living in South Africa?

H.K.:  Oh yes, there is a huge Greek community in South Africa.  Almost every corner grocery shop used to be owned and run by Greeks.  My father-in-law used to own a shop as well.  Unfortunately these shops are targets for criminals and so it has become a life threatening job to own a shop.  A lot of Greeks have packed up their belongings and either moved back here, or gone to explore other countries.

In general Greeks are hard working, intelligent and smart.  They are incredibly successful wherever they go.  A lot of the best real estate in Cape Town is owned by Greeks.  The same is probably true for other countries as well.  

HCCA: That’s great.We  then hope that we will soon see a Greek Cashflow Club to be formed in South Africa.

H.K.:  I think it might be equally likely to see a South African Cashflow club formed right here in Greece   There are hundreds, maybe thousands of South Africans living here in Greece nowadays.

Thank you very much for your interest in our club and I hope that we can help a few rats escape the ever-turning wheel of life !

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For more information about the Rich Geeks Cashflow Club and Dr Heinz M. Kabutz you can visit his personal web-site at: www.javaspecialists.eu